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Questioner

Elder Whisper vs. Blackflame Turtle 

Will Wight

There is no defense against raw Turtle Power.

Questioner

Northstrider vs. Sha Miara

Will Wight

Sha Miara wins due to a mismatch of powers. If she knows what his powers are like and how they work, she can shut them down directly.In a contest of pure force, she would get annihilated.

Dyslexic Satan

The cthaeh from the king killer chronicles vs the entire world of Cradle

*cthaeh is given 500 years to prepare and sets events in motion but cannot start violence until 490*Cradle does not know Cthaeh is there to kill them until it has been in world for 500 years*Abidan are not involved

Will

Those are some harsh conditions.

The only advantage Cradle has at this point is that there ARE individuals capable of seeing and manipulating the future. I mean, Elder Whisper already demonstrated the capacity to catch glimpses of the future, and he's pretty low on the overall power scale.

This type of scenario is interesting enough that I was already considering it for the distant future, actually (not the cthaeh, obviously, but some other malicious oracle entity). But if I did, their objective wouldn't be to depopulate Cradle.

Because here's the problem: the cthaeh WOULD be detected before 500 years are up. Some of the people on the top end of the scale would go "Who's that messing with the future?" and go find it to blow it up.

And if it started depopulating Cradle, the Abidan WOULD get involved. I mean, heck, the Abidan are pretty spot-on about any foreign threat messing with Cradle's fate. There's a snake in the nursery; the adults aren't going to ignore it.

HOWEVER, given your conditions...

...it gets pretty interesting.

The first thing the cthaeh is going to realize is that it isn't the only fate-manipulating individual around, and that the others have much greater destructive power. So it's going to have multiple layers of misdirection around it: a proxy oracle to take the blame, a decoy tree, some way to mask its touch on fate, and it would probably limit itself to a very subtle, long-term influence to avoid getting caught.

Then it would make a list of these other precognitive threats and make sure that whatever it did destroyed them first. If it can be the only entity capable of manipulating fate, it wins.

The advantage there is that, while there are millions if not billions (population of Cradle is huge) of sacred artists in Cradle with the ability to see hints of fate, there are only a handful capable of manipulating it. And if the cthaeh can kill them, or even most of them, its chances of success increase significantly.

But it's still playing with fire, because while it is making its own preparations, the native oracles are laying their plans as well. Plus, due to the nature of Cradle's magic system, new threats to the cthaeh can pop up anytime, so it has to account for POTENTIAL precognitives as well.

I think it would probably, in order to mask its own influence and still have the most destructive impact possible, start leading psychotic and murderous individuals to sources of great power. It might even start its own cult around itself, dedicated to killing readers of fate. It would certainly provoke the Dreadgods, leading them to go on four separate destructive rampages, and probably wake as many of the other ancient threats as it could.

There are things buried in Cradle that can affect the global climate, swarms of monsters that multiply endlessly, weapons that detonate living beings directly, curses that make innocents into killers...

All that said, I have difficulty envisioning a scenario in which the cthaeh is able to FULLY destroy Cradle.

In the end, it can't act too directly or it risks discovery, and new threats to its existence can pop up any day. And it's an individual, while Cradle is a massive planet with trillions of people, each of whom are POTENTIALLY capable of growing to the degree that they can threaten the tree.

I think it could easily destroy all civilization and cause thousands of Paths to be forgotten, erasing hundreds of legacies and killing billions of sacred artists. It turns the whole planet into an inhospitable post-apocalyptic wasteland in which only the most hardy can eke out a living.

But eventually, someone is going to kill it.

Jono

However, that only works if you go with Kvothe's belief of the abilities of the Cthaeth. If you were to agree with Bast's opinions, Cradle has no chance as the Cthaeth will have already predicted all this and everything that may come of it, and all counters to its schemes, thus meaning that the Cradle inhabitants working to stop it are, in fact, furthering its goals.

Will

Sure, except that it's up against similar beings, so assuming that they're equal is a stalemate.

"It predicted you'd predict it, so it was prepared for your prediction, but you predicted that prediction and prepared a prediction of your own..."

Stalemate.

Like a lot of these matchups, you have to assume a reasonably equal scale.

Questioner

Yerin vs. Simon

Will Wight

Yerin wouldn't get absolutely smoked against no-mask Simon, but I do think she would lose. We haven't fully seen her go all-out yet, so it's closer than you might think, but she doesn't have the raw strength Simon does. Yet. Simon (the commenter on this blog) is right about Yerin's master: the Sword Sage would toy with Simon (the character) until Simon's powers ran out and he lost.

Questioner

Strongest sacred artist vs. a Great Elder

Will Wight

It's hard to say who the strongest Great Elder is, because they each measure strength differently.However, the strongest sacred artist in Cradle would be able to solo any of the Great Elders. Of course, that would only disperse them and make them spend centuries re-forming, since they don't treat death the same way mortals do, but it's enough for the sacred artist to win the battle.

Questioner

Simon vs. Meia

Will Wight

Similar situation as against Urzaia, except that in this case it depends on who gets the first move. Because unlike Urzaia, Meia will try to kill Simon instantly.

So if Simon doesn't take it seriously from the very beginning, he's likely to lose. 60-40 Meia. If he does, it swings his way a little bit. Maybe 55-45 Simon.

It would be close, though.

Questioner

Eight-Man Empire versus Sha Miara...

Will Wight

She'd have more difficulty dealing with them as opposed to Northstrider, because they're relying on individual power and a formation that manipulates aura when they fight. In the end, it's roughly even, and it depends on a bunch of variables, but here's the bottom line: if Sha Miara can figure out and break their formation quickly, she wins. If she can't, they're sharing and pooling power, and they will overwhelm her.

Questioner

Kai vs. Bliss

Will Wight

I would love to write this fight.

Probably Bliss, but only because Kai has no frame of reference for understanding her powers. If he did get a sense for them, then he could take it. He's stronger and faster and more experienced in combat than she is. But the weirdness of her powers would be her biggest advantage.

And Kai would need a doll.

Questioner

Li Markuth vs. Yerin's master and Eithan

Will Wight

Yerin's master and Eithan take it. In fact, Yerin's master might be able to do it without Eithan's help. Maybe. He and Li Markuth are on a similar level.

Questioner

Yerin vs. Simon with only steel

Will Wight

Yerin. She's trained longer with the sword, she would be physically weaker than him but not so much that she would be overwhelmed, and she can do crazy magic things that Simon can't.

Questioner

What about Kelarac vs. Suriel? Or any of the Great Elders vs. Suriel?

Will Wight

In a complicated and protracted battle fought on many levels simultaneously, Suriel eventually gets the upper hand. She knows that banishing the Elder will only delay the problem, so she seals the Elder's power and banishes it to a lesser world. A world with special characteristics that will keep the Elder sealed for as long as possible.

Questioner

Elder Whisper vs. Asphodel Incarnation

Will Wight

This would be another one of those really interesting, sort of irritating fights where everyone is trying to figure out what is real and what's just an illusion.

Honestly, I think this probably comes down to chance. One of them falls into the other's trap first, and it's 50-50 who.

Questioner

Northstrider vs. the Eight-Man Empire

Will Wight

This would be a huge, destructive conflict with lots of collateral damage, but eventually I think Northstrider would probably win. The EME don't really have the firepower to beat him quickly, so they would be relying on a drawn-out contest, but he would be coming at them as hard and as fast as possible.

Lightsyde

This is my favourite blog since 'Ancestors of Cradle'!! Fun reading!!!

How aboutGrom (The Archmage of Menzoberanzan) vs Elder Whisper

Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden 2) vs Yerin?

Goku (ignoring anything past the Main Buu Saga) vs Northstrider?

Is there anyone in the Cradle world (not the universe itself but the planet) that can take one Majin-Buu or Majin-Vegeta?

Evangeline Kitty McDowell (from UQ Holder) vs Luminous Queen Sha Maria?

Touta Konoe (UQ Holder) vs Yerin

Esdeath (Akame ga kill) vs Li Markuth

More to come later =(^-^)=

Will Wight

This thread has gotten so long! It's been awesome, but now I'm having trouble keeping track of it all!

1.) Grom vs. Elder Whisper

I'd like to give it to Whisper because of the flexibility of madra vs. Vancian magic, which relies on prepared and memorized spells and material components. That said, I'd think it would depend on where they fought. Elder Whisper relies on light aura, and Menzoberranzan is in the Underdark. There is some bioluminescence for decoration, but the dark elves primarily rely on infravision to see. No light aura, and Elder Whisper's powers are more limited. Plus, Grom can attack directly, which Elder Whisper essentially can't. Grom gets it.

2.) Ninja Gaiden 2 Ryu Hayabusa vs. Yerin

I have to say I didn't play 2; I played 1, and I played Dead or Alive, but not 2. So if the specifics of what I say are wrong, forgive me.

I'd think Yerin would get it because she's from a magic system with more magic. Everything she does is infused with madra--she's strengthened by madra, throwing blades of madra, using the power of an opponent's blades against them.

Ryu has powers of his own, as well as a great deal of training, but for the most part he's swinging regular steel weapons. Yerin beats him.

3.) SS3 Goku vs. Northstrider

This is roughly the level of power I'm looking at for Northstrider. When he powers up, the world shakes for miles around. That sort of thing.

(Not blowing up planets, but they could do that in the Saiyan Saga, so I'm just kind of pretending DBZ characters can't do that.)

I'd think Goku would win, because Northstrider can't teleport or use ki blasts (unless between now and my introduction of the character I decide to give him that ability). In a straight punch-out, they'd be comparable.

4.) Majin Buu or Majin Vegeta

Yes.

5.) Evangeline vs. Sha Miara

UQ Holder Evangeline rather than Negima Evangeline, huh? Not that in her particular case it matters much, that's just interesting.

Evangeline has to win because she's immortal and Sha Miara isn't. In terms of magical firepower, I'd give it to Sha Miara, but I don't know that Evangeline has ever gone 100% all-out. Still a similar level.

6.) Touta Konoe vs. Yerin

Same thing: Touta wins because he can't be killed. So he basically can't lose a death match.

I'm also not fully clear on what his powers are, but the White Light of Mars can presumably disperse Yerin's Striker and Ruler techniques (though not her Enforcer techniques, which I'd guess would work more similar to chi in the Negima universe). Even if you say that dying once disqualifies him, Touta probably wins.

7.) Esdeath vs. Li Markuth

Esdeath can freeze *time itself,* which is pretty OP, but I think Li Markuth still wins. He's superhuman and has access to a broader variety of techniques.

Questioner

Simon vs. Urzaia

Will Wight

The Nye essence gives Simon the edge here, but only at first. Honestly, based on the way Simon fights, he wouldn't start out a duel against an unknown opponent with an all-out offensive blitz. And that would be his best chance.

Urzaia can take a hit from Mithra. His weapons can stand up to it, and his Soulbound Vessel can stop it as well. On top of that, he has the strength to (more or less) match Simon and enough reaction speed that he wouldn't be completely overwhelmed by Nye essence unless Simon pushed it to the limit from the very beginning. Plus, he's dueled a hundred times more people than Simon has.

Given that Simon starts the fight trying to be conservative with his powers and then ramps up, Urzaia wins. If Simon knows how much of a threat he is and treats him that way from the very beginning, Simon MIGHT take it.

Questioner

Eldest Nye versus Suriel 1.0- the prior bearer of Suriel's mantle. In Valinhall. Since I feel location would be important there, maybe. When they give up a mantle does that make them more or less human?

Will Wight

Eldest Nye vs. Former Suriel

They're more human when they pass on the mantle, and they lose access to the former extent of their powers.

However, this only means that he would be unable to tear Valinhall apart with the force of her will alone. He'd still have his millennia of experience and skills, as well as his personal power.

However, he's scarred from killing people so he would likely stall, which the Eldest Nye would not do, and the Eldest has the backup of the entire House.

In the end, I don't think the Eldest has enough firepower to kill even a mortal Suriel. In the end, Suriel 1.0 would probably just find a method to cut through the Way and leave.

Questioner

Blackflame Emperor vs. Sword Sage

Will Wight

The BF Emperor is one stage lower than any Sage, and he knows that. If he were forced to do battle against a Sage, he would seek to die with honor and dignity, acquitting himself as well as possible.

Questioner

Valinhall vs. Elders and Estyr Six

Will Wight

Valinhall vs. the Great Elders is an interesting matchup because it depends entirely on which one they're fighting. Against Nakothi, for instance, a full team of Valinhall Travelers would do even better than the Emperor and the Regents did. They would tear Nakothi apart with minimal losses.

Same goes for Kthanikahr or Othaghor. The Emperor WISHES he had an elite team like the Valinhall Travelers when he was going after Othaghor, because he basically just spawns endless minions.

Against Tharlos, on the other hand, the Valinhall Travelers would just have their minds warped and go insane, or they would be turned into ooze or a lamppost or something. He breaks all the rules. Urg'naut's shadows would be able to kill Simon without him ever being able to resist, and Ach'magut would arrange matters so that it never came to a direct confrontation.

Versus Estyr Six...I guess it depends on how many Valinhall Travelers show up. All thirteen could definitely do it, six would be pushing it, three wouldn't be enough.

Questioner

The Emperor is way more powerful than a lot of people on the blog give him credit for!

How about him vs. Northstrider or any of those guys Suriel showed Lindon at the beginning of Unsouled. Actually I believe The Emperor would kick any of their butts one on one. How about The Emperor vs. the three strongest people on the planet Cradle? Besides Suriel because she is not a resident of Cradle.

Basically is anyone on Cradle on par with The Elders, or could The Emperor handily destroy anyone on Cradle?

Will Wight

Their powers work differently, but no, the Emperor would not be one of the strongest people on Cradle. The reason the Abidan value Cradle is because it nurtures and produces extremely powerful individuals.

A fight against Yerin's master would be pretty even. Depends on the circumstances at that point, like how well-armed the Emperor is and how seriously the Sword Sage takes the fight from the very beginning.

Questioner

What about Yerin with Valinhall powers VS. Calder with Valinhall powers?

Will Wight

Man, that's a cool question.I'll still give it to Yerin, for the reasons stated above. Calder has training in fencing and experience using a saber, but it's not like he was trained as the disciple of a wandering swordsman.If they can use their previous powers, Calder being a Reader adds an interesting dimension to the Valinhall powers, but it doesn't touch having an Iron body on TOP of the ability to call steel, plus Striker and Ruler techniques.