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Will Wight

The Blackflame Empire

The Blackflame Empire was founded by dragons.

In Cradle, dragons are a race of sacred beasts that can...well, they're dragons. You know what they can do. Like all sacred beasts and Remnants, their intelligence is based largely on their age and advancement levels, so many of them have human-level intelligence or better.

A family of black dragons once conquered and ruled half a continent, which is a truly massive amount of territory in a world the size of Cradle. They held their empire against all rivals for centuries.

Until a mysterious disaster killed most of the dragons, crippling their ability to continue the bloodline. As you know, no one in a fantasy novel ever discovers the truth behind ancient disasters, so I'm sure it will remain a mystery forever.

With their rulers dead or dying, a clan of humans stumbled upon a method of harnessing the dragons' power. They abandoned their old Path, instead choosing to develop the same sacred arts used by the dragons.

The Blackflame Empire shrunk in size, the humans lacking the ability to control quite as much territory as the dragons could, though it was still home to over a billion people.*

This clan started calling their main branch the Blackflame family, for obvious reasons, and they stayed in control for almost five hundred years.

But human bodies were not well-suited to the power of dragons. Slowly, the family declined, until even those who lived in the heart of the empire thought of them more as symbols and legends than actual individuals.

More and more of the day-to-day workings of the Empire were left to the Blackflames' traditional servants, the Naru clan. They became the face of the Blackflame empire, with their loyal reputation and shining emerald wings, and the people grew to know and trust them.

Fifty years ago, they quietly ascended the throne.

The first Naru clan Empress has since moved into private seclusion, and her son now rules the Empire. As for the Blackflame family themselves, they died out decades ago, gradually eaten from the inside out by their own madra.

That's the story, anyway.

*(A truly ridiculous number of people live in Cradle. The main planet of Iteration 110 is quite a bit bigger than Earth.)

Questioner

How did the other empires of Cradle consider the Blackflames when they were at their strongest? And how would they react to a new Blackflame?

Will Wight

"How would they react to a new Blackflame?" is a bit too much of a spoiler, but...When the Blackflame Empire was at its height, it controlled the whole (massive) continent. That was when it was ruled by dragons.When the Blackflame family was at the height of their power, their empire controlled about half the continent. As for the other half...well, the dragons and their descendants had to go somewhere.Now that the Blackflame lineage has fallen, the Empire is even smaller. About a third of the continent. The dragons outside are powerful enough to wipe out the human empire, except that the humans of the Blackflame Empire have a backer.To the other great nations around the world, including the Ninecloud Court, the original Blackflame Empire was a real power. Now, it's just one territory sheltered under the wing of a true powerhouse.

Questioner

What’s the most popular holiday in the blackflame empire? What does it celebrate how do the people celebrate it?

Will Wight

They celebrate the Emperor's birthday every year with parades that throw scales into the audience. They also celebrate the Empire's founding...although the date for that changes depending on where in the Empire you are.Some people celebrate the founding of the current Empire, after the Blackflame family's fall. Others celebrate the founding of the original human empire, and still others celebrate the founding of the ancient dragon empire (although this date is highly disputed).

Questioner

What is a piece of cut content that you fully fleshed out, but never found a good spot to put in the books? Besides jade cycling techniques, that is.

Will Wight

Well, I shared a lot of that before, I guess, Bloodline I think.  I shared some of the things I had thought about there.  There's a lot of paths that I made.  I think one thing - this is funny, but I made a full character sheet for Charity, Akura Charity.  So the owls thing, that's a real technique.  I know all the techniques in The Book of the Silver Heart.  I have a character sheet for Pride too somewhere, but, you know.  It's Pride.  Charity though, I have names for her weapons and artifacts.  I have some elaborate stuff, and we just never got into it.  Maybe I'll shove it into the nest book.  She still has a role in the series of course.  So maybe I'll elaborate on that.  So that's one thing.  I have character sheets for quite a number of people, but Charity is one that I was looking through my notes the other day, and I was like, huh.  I fleshed out her path.  And I never really did a whole lot with it.  

So, anything else... Another piece of cut content...  Oh, there is a lot of setting stuff.  A lot of Serpent's Grave.  Even in Elder Empire.  I actually built the Gray Island, for the Consultant Headquarters in Elder Empire, I built that in Minecraft so I would have a map for it.  I just went into creator mode in Minecraft and built the whole thing.  Built the docks, built the different traps, and the underground chamber, and all that stuff.  I ended up losing that map because I transitioned computers and didn't back it up.  So I was really salty about that.  So that's another thing; there's a few setting things that I fleshed out then didn't get to include, because of course I, instead f lingering on settings, blow past them at the speed of light.  So there's stuff with Blackflame City and stuff with Serpent's Grave that I came up with, then just didn't use.  I do that a lot with characters and settings; come up with details for them that are probably never going to come up.  There's a few sages that I think are super cool that are probably never going to come up.  Just a few paths they get to use that are (aren't?) cool.  There's also some that I initially had that overlap with another character or they just aren't that important.  So there was one guy that was on a sun path, and he was conjuring... It's kind of like Heaven's Glory but taken to the utmost extreme, because he's a sage.  So yeah, a few things like that.  

One of the first things I did in Blackflame actually, was I went through and defined all the monarchs, and the most prominent heralds and sages and stuff, because I wanted to know who the most powerful figures in the world are.  I did this in Elder Empire too; I went and elaborated on the regents and guild heads in one document in order to define the setting and the magic system.  That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and I recommend anyone do it if you are trying to write a progression fantasy sort of setting where people scale in power, is if you define the upper end of the system really quick, even to yourself, it can help you answer questions you didn't even know you had.  Somebody asked me earlier, how do you get past being stuck, and the answer I am sorry to say, is really just write nonsense.  Write the best scene you can think of.  Well, I don't know what to write.  To bad, keep writing.  Write as though someone is holding a gun to your head so words keep coming out of your fingers.  So that's how you do it.  Another answer that I'll elaborate on is you want to know more about your story.  One of the ways to do that is to answer questions to yourself.  Defining powerful people in your magic system is another way to answer questions you didn't even know you had.

So, one of the first things I did for Elder Empire, which I didn't do this for Cradle, mainly because I just went through and I had a file that's literally called powerful people of Cradle, and I just went through and outlined all the monarchs and their relationships to one another, and their factions, and what continent their on, their most powerful and loyal sages and heralds, all that kind of thing.  So, I went through and did all that around Blackflame, when I was really trying to define the setting, and of course I had done a little bit of that already, because 3 of the monarchs show up in Unsouled, so clearly I had done some of that already, but I finished the documentation there.  And in Elder Empire, I wrote a scene with the Emperor and the first generation Champions, uniting the world.  And of course at least of those first generation Champions became a regent.  And I didn't know anything about Estyr Six at the time; I just thought about a woman with long hair, and a black coat, and three lizard skulls that she was levitating around her with her powers that I thought was really cool, and because of that image, I fleshed her out into one of the major people in the setting.  And that ended up helping me fill in history of the setting that I didn't know I needed, and the dominoes sort of fell, and that inspired me and gave me some gaps to fill in later.

Questioner

Who are the tide walkers? 

It seems that they're mentioned a lot in this series for us to know a little about them. 

Will Wight

So that goes that goes back to what I was saying earlier. 

Effectively they're just the water sect, you know, but I'm like, yes. 

I mentioned them a lot for us to not , an odd amount. 

But it's like, yeah, I can make him kind of cool and memorable. 

Or I can not. 

And I was Like, yeah, I'll do that even though they're probably not going to play any greater role. 

In the later series, so yeah. 

But the background I did for the Tide Walker sect was I did a background for a war that the coat I clan is primarily a part of in the Blackflame Empire, so the northern border of the Black Flame Empire borders the trackless sea, and that's where the Tide Walker sect comes from and the tide Walker second some of their allied factions are constantly assaulting the northern part of the Black Flame empire, looking to take land and resources from the Kotai effectively, and they have like a big seawall that they're constantly manning.  

That's who they are they're the sect that backs that, but they're bigger and more important than the Black Flame empire is, so that's just one of the many things they're doing.  

So the Black Flame empire, especially the Kotai clan, thinks of them as this malicious collection of fish people and in reality they are a lot more than that. 

They just have a lot of other things going on. 

Questioner

Is it in anyway disappointing that Cradle has been more successful than Elder Empire?

Will Wight

It's hard to say that Cradle has been disappointing in any way. Cradle has vastly exceeded my expectations. So, I can't in good conscience say that Cradle has disappointed me at all. But, I mean, I guess, sort of, I do wish Elder Empire had been more successful, but isn't that kind of like of course I do, it'd be great if everybody loved every series I write. But, I didn't have any real expectations of that, there's no blame or anything like that. The only thing that I feel a little bit disappointed in, I guess, is I put a lot more work in Elder Empire than I initially did into Cradle. Now at this point in Cradle, I'm trying hard. But, it was a lot harder to write Elder Empire. The minimum standard of Elder Empire is a lot higher, it's just difficult to write. So, when you put that much effort into something and people enjoy it less than they do the thing you put less effort into, that is difficult. But, nowadays there's not that difference. Now writing Cradle, after basically Soulsmith, I put just as much effort into Cradle, but it's a lot more straightforward, it's a lot easier to write, basically. It's easier and people like it more. It feels better when you're effort is proportional to the response, but that's not always the case. So, there you go.

Questioner

When is Cradle book 8?

Will Wight

Book 8 is after Elder Empire. So my current plan, and I want to emphasize that this is my current plan and is all subject to change, is that I am going to do Elder Empire, well I'm definitely doing Elder Empire, I'm already working on Elder Empire. Then after that, my intention is to do Cradle 8 and 9 and then something different. I'm not changing my mind on Elder Empire, that one's happening. After that one I can do 8 and 9.

Lightsyde

This is my favourite blog since 'Ancestors of Cradle'!! Fun reading!!!

How aboutGrom (The Archmage of Menzoberanzan) vs Elder Whisper

Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden 2) vs Yerin?

Goku (ignoring anything past the Main Buu Saga) vs Northstrider?

Is there anyone in the Cradle world (not the universe itself but the planet) that can take one Majin-Buu or Majin-Vegeta?

Evangeline Kitty McDowell (from UQ Holder) vs Luminous Queen Sha Maria?

Touta Konoe (UQ Holder) vs Yerin

Esdeath (Akame ga kill) vs Li Markuth

More to come later =(^-^)=

Will Wight

This thread has gotten so long! It's been awesome, but now I'm having trouble keeping track of it all!

1.) Grom vs. Elder Whisper

I'd like to give it to Whisper because of the flexibility of madra vs. Vancian magic, which relies on prepared and memorized spells and material components. That said, I'd think it would depend on where they fought. Elder Whisper relies on light aura, and Menzoberranzan is in the Underdark. There is some bioluminescence for decoration, but the dark elves primarily rely on infravision to see. No light aura, and Elder Whisper's powers are more limited. Plus, Grom can attack directly, which Elder Whisper essentially can't. Grom gets it.

2.) Ninja Gaiden 2 Ryu Hayabusa vs. Yerin

I have to say I didn't play 2; I played 1, and I played Dead or Alive, but not 2. So if the specifics of what I say are wrong, forgive me.

I'd think Yerin would get it because she's from a magic system with more magic. Everything she does is infused with madra--she's strengthened by madra, throwing blades of madra, using the power of an opponent's blades against them.

Ryu has powers of his own, as well as a great deal of training, but for the most part he's swinging regular steel weapons. Yerin beats him.

3.) SS3 Goku vs. Northstrider

This is roughly the level of power I'm looking at for Northstrider. When he powers up, the world shakes for miles around. That sort of thing.

(Not blowing up planets, but they could do that in the Saiyan Saga, so I'm just kind of pretending DBZ characters can't do that.)

I'd think Goku would win, because Northstrider can't teleport or use ki blasts (unless between now and my introduction of the character I decide to give him that ability). In a straight punch-out, they'd be comparable.

4.) Majin Buu or Majin Vegeta

Yes.

5.) Evangeline vs. Sha Miara

UQ Holder Evangeline rather than Negima Evangeline, huh? Not that in her particular case it matters much, that's just interesting.

Evangeline has to win because she's immortal and Sha Miara isn't. In terms of magical firepower, I'd give it to Sha Miara, but I don't know that Evangeline has ever gone 100% all-out. Still a similar level.

6.) Touta Konoe vs. Yerin

Same thing: Touta wins because he can't be killed. So he basically can't lose a death match.

I'm also not fully clear on what his powers are, but the White Light of Mars can presumably disperse Yerin's Striker and Ruler techniques (though not her Enforcer techniques, which I'd guess would work more similar to chi in the Negima universe). Even if you say that dying once disqualifies him, Touta probably wins.

7.) Esdeath vs. Li Markuth

Esdeath can freeze *time itself,* which is pretty OP, but I think Li Markuth still wins. He's superhuman and has access to a broader variety of techniques.

Wodan

What is the official path of Arelius clan? And what are its basic principles?

Will Wight

That's an interesting question. So, the official path of the Arelius clan.

The Arelius family in the Blackflame Empire does not have an official path. They don't have one; the elders are all on different paths. I mean they really do a lot of different stuff. They usually use their different paths to create links and bonds--kind of like arranged marriages between the different sects and schools of the empire. The path that Cassius is on, the Path of Silver Grace, the School of Silver Grace is actually an influential and prestigious school in the Blackflame Empire. Therefore, they send qualified people there from the Arelius Family in order to create bonds. So, really, it's their people in different sects and schools all over the empire.

However, as has been alluded to for the last few books, there is a homeland continent the Arelius family come from and they have a main clan there. That clan does indeed have an official path but I'm not going to share it with you yet because I think it's going to come into play in book seven. Books seven and eight, so it's at least going to be featured in it. I don't know how prominent it's going to be so that's not as much of a spoiler as it sounds like.

Will Wight

Let me clarify some things in this post, since I’m getting some common responses here and in the blog comments.

Elder Empire didn’t sell well compared to Traveler’s Gate and Cradle. It actually sold fine, it’s just that the books were spread out over such a long time that the income was unsustainable.

If I could have released two pairs a year, it would have been perfectly viable, but my fingers would have fallen off like a leper’s.

And when they read something like this, a lot of people react by explaining to me why they’ve never tried to read the books.

First off, that’s fine! Any new story concept is going to have people it turns off, and I understand that going into everything I write. And this one in particular is weird and confusing on the surface.

I think there’s this perception that I blame readers for EE not selling as well as TG or Cradle, and that is ridiculously not the case.

Though I tend to mention it a lot, Elder Empire selling not-quite-as-well has never bothered me emotionally very much.

I never expected to succeed as an author in the first place, so I saw Traveler’s Gate’s high sales as the fluke and Elder Empire as the expected outcome.

My business manager mentioned to me not too long ago: “You know, you really never got upset by Elder Empire not selling well.” And I hadn’t thought about it much, but it genuinely never did bother me.

I would characterize my reaction as “Eh, I wish that had sold better. Oh well. I hope they enjoy the next one!”

I definitely take some things too personally, but EE’s less-than-stellar performance isn’t one of them.

Questioner

In one of the short stories you had Northstrider fighting Alin. And one of the thoughts that we read from Northstrider was mentioning about how weak one of the Abidan was that contacted him. Does that mean, I guess theoretically, that Northstrider would be able to kill them if he fought them. 

Will Wight

Yeah. Northstrider could beat some of the weaker or less combat focused lower level Abidan. Absolutely. Suriel would, you know juggle him like a ball.

RekTer

Wow. Why is it that Elder Empire gets amazing art like this, yet Cradle just gets some scribbles for the covers?

Also I should probably just bite the bullet and read Elder Empire. I haven't yet because the "simultaneous stories" hook really doesn't excite me, but with art like this how could I not enjoy it?

Will Wight

"Some scribbles" = I'll kill you. I like that art.

But the reason why Elder Empire gets full paintings while Cradle covers are done in photoshop is because there are way more Cradle books and they come out more frequently. There's no delaying a Cradle book to wait on the cover art, and there never will be!

The Lost Reader

Hey Will, If you suddenly teleported to Cradle and gained the ability to practice the sacred arts. What path would you choose and why?

Will Wight

So here's an interesting fact about me, what I do with every one of my books, is I make sure I'm prepared for the eventuality that I am magically transported into the world. Because so many people have not prepared for that, and it's too likely to avoid. So I therefore include a stash in all of my books, where there are things for me, that I know where they are, and nobody else does. So if I get sucked into the world, I'll be fine. So the Path I have chosen is the Path of the Cloud Hammer, from the Blackflame Empire, which I know I didnt get into, but its a cloud and force path, so its very versatile, its also something I can use to get along normally in the world, and i've included a lot of different artifacts and elixirs and stuff, to get me up to code, as well as some training things, so that I dont completely suck. So i've done that.

In Elder Empire, I left one file at the Consultants Guild, in all the major cities I've left a bunch of invested items and Awakened items under my name, that will help protect me, keep me alive, and protect me from Elders, so that I can just live out my life, and a bunch of money, because they have paper money in Elder Empire, so I just left myself a bunch of cash.

Then in Traveler's Gate I buried in a bunch of key locations, I have buried a lot of artifacts from Territories, that will allow me to get along and basically able to live a comfortable life in Damasca and not get murdered by Travelers. So basically what I did was I made sure that I could live as a normal person in these inhospitable worlds that I was in. In Traveler's Gate I didn't find a way to make myself a Traveler or anything, I think probably I would rather just live as a regular person.

Windrunner

Was wondering a bit about Dross and Northstrider, I've read the WoW and we were discussing it last night. I know you've said that Northstrider would think Dross was a failure because he doesn't have the depth of information as a Abidan presence, but I was also wondering if Dross is a bit more aware/independent than Northstrider would like/how the Abidan Presences are

Will Wight

We’ll get more into the nature of Presences as the series progresses, but basically they’re each very individual. Suriel’s is very different from Makiel’s in both specialty and personality, etc.

Rhys

How big is the ninecloud court, compared to the blackflame empire now and at its height.

Will Wight

In general, the Ninecloud Court is on a completely higher level than the Blackflame Empire, even at the Empire's height. The dragons were more powerful than they are today, but they were far from being able to contend with a Dreadgod, as the most powerful individual in the Ninecloud Court can.

Questioner

Thanks for the answer, not sure if you do follow-ups, but Northstrider very clearly wants a 'subordinate' mind, is Dross suborindate to Lindon? Or a partner? What if Lindon wants to do something Dross doesn't want to do.

I guess that might too detailed... is Dross what Northstrider wants in terms of independence i guess is my question

Will Wight

Northstrider thinks of a Presence as something like an extra mini-brain, which is not entirely right. A Presence is more like a committee of experts inside your head that speak with one voice. In Dross’ case, there’s one dominant personality speaking for that committee. Dross and Lindon could disagree, and Lindon might lose the benefits of having Dross around, but Lindon could also kill Dross. Plus, Dross still has his essential nature as a memory construct; he doesn’t really mind doing what he was built for.

Questioner

Why can't Sesh defeat Northstrider since he has allies and Northstrider doesn't?

Will Wight

That is a misconception. Northstrider doesn't belong to an organization but that does not mean that he doesn't have allies.

Questioner

There is a lot of debate between the fanbase about the height of power that the original Blackflame Empire reached. Can you confirm if the original Blackflame empire had any of the following: Monarch, Sage, and/or Herald?

Will Wight

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the original Blackflame Empire had a monarch, maybe two monarchs, I'm not actually sure about that off the top of my head; I'd have to go back and check my notes.  But I think it's probably one.  That would be my reasonable guess there.  I think that's true.  They had at least a couple of heralds for sure.  And I think probably a monarch.

Ray745

So in the Uncrowned King tournament there are 8 Monarch factions, 8 sets of teams, 8 factions giving gifts etc, etc. However, everyone believes Northstrider died 6 years ago. Everyone also knows Northstrider has no faction of his own, so it's not like the Arelius faction which still has people who are able to choose competitors and give out gifts to the other teams. If the 9CC truly believed NS to be dead, as the 9C Soul stated, then why would they have a NS team in the tourney? Who would have been selecting the competitors or giving gifts? The Beast King? It doesn't seem to me like they are together in any official way, just friends and allies. Has this ever been brought up before? Was everyone not surprised to see 4 full teams of Underlords for NS before he showed up at the beginning?

Will Wight

It was more of a surprise that House Arelius showed up.

There are lots of unaffiliated Heralds and Sages who compete under Northstrider’s banner, so it was always expected that they would show up in his name until one among them ascended to Monarch.

tlor180

The character to character interactions in Elder Empire are leagues ahead of his other books,(although tbf cradle has a very different focus). I hope the relative obscureness compared to cradle doesn't dissaude will from writing more character focused stories.

Will Wight

Not to bring down the mood, but it kind of has dissuaded me.

IMHO, Elder Empire has two strengths:

1.) The world feels cohesive. It has history and culture and a postal system, different characters have different opinions on people and events that everyone is aware of, there’s shared mythology, etc.

2.) The major characters are a lot more fleshed out.

I believe I can bring some of that over to Cradle, especially having refreshed myself on it by skipping over to OKAK, but back when I started writing EE I thought this was the direction I was going to take my writing.

If you’ll pardon the comparison, let’s say Traveler’s Gate was halfway between a Japanese light novel and a traditional Western fantasy novel. Then Elder Empire would be a step more towards traditional novels and Cradle is a step towards light novels.

Well, one of those did 10-20x better than the other.

So I’m a lot more inclined to keep leaning toward the light novel side, which means not diving deeper into world and character development.

Having said all that, there’s still room to improve my character writing even without changing the formula of Cradle at all, it just comes down to skill. I’m working on it!

acog

It's a tough question to answer since you're trying to guess why someone didn't buy it, and people don't leave feedback for books they decided to skip. Still, I think I'm not alone. I had a small company for years and one lesson I learned in sales was that "analysis paralysis" is real. If the customer is the least bit confused, the easiest thing to do is not make the sale. Look at how many posts there are in this subreddit asking about the proper reading order for the trilogies. Might be a sign.

Will Wight

I actually completely agree with what you’re saying.

My experience is that readers need to think they know what they’re getting from a story in order to pick it up.

Then you have to give them what they came for, as well as a little something extra they didn’t expect.

So, given all that about the structure, here’s the situation I’m actually in: I’m going to start a new series, for which I’m DEFINITELY not doing a crazy new experimental format, and I have to decide whether to make it more like a traditional fantasy story or more like a light novel. (So to speak.)

And I have three data points. The hybrid version (TGT) did very well, the traditional series did relatively poorly, and the one that was most like a light novel performed by far the best.

Now, I too believe that it was mostly because of the structure that people didn’t try EE.

But is it worth the risk to gamble with a traditional fantasy series?

I feel like I’m at a crossroads where one road is covered in fog and vultures while the other is well-paved and raining gold.