Recent entries

ebrithil110

I'm really excited to see more of that kind of stuff, it's something I've really felt crandle was missing, like if you just read the books as they are and don't assume you're glossing over stuff constantly, then lindon is a monster who feeds little blue like once a month and pretty much only ever speaks to and interacts with her when he wants something from her. I really want to see more of the day to day character interations.

Will Wight

While I agree with the spirit of what you’re saying, that sounds like a REALLY literal interpretation.

If you take it completely at face value, then none of the characters ever use the bathroom or sneeze, and the only meals they have are when the mealtime conversation furthers the story. Otherwise they starve.

ebrithil110

Well obviously you can't write everything that's happening all the time otherwise the book would be immensely long and boring besides, no one one wants to read about inconsequential stuff like them going to the bathroom but little day to day character interactions are important and have been lacking in my opinion, especially in regards to little blue, they seem to treat her more like a pet than a person if you just rake it at face value, obviously there is a lot of interaction and development with the characters we don't get to see and I want more of that stuff.

Will Wight

I totally agree!

I just now left a comment explaining what I’m about to say more fully, but I’ve always been afraid that including these sorts of scenes will slow down the book too much.

Can you have a fast, snappy pace AND these day-to-day-life character development scenes? I don’t know. They might be mutually exclusive.

But I’m trying it out this time!

yaboiLu

Reading this and some of your other comments makes me curious Will, what is the specific goal of this strategy change? It seems like you’re aiming for a faster process at the risk of a book you may like less or have less control over. Is this new process more enjoyable for you or more stressful?

Im assuming this is overall a good thing for you and short Reddit comments don’t paint the whole picture but just wanted to say I would rather wait extra months for the next book than have you stressed and unsatisfied with your process and lose the pacing that you love in favor of something that the readers like more. I think most of us are invested in your career more so than the next book and don’t want you to get burned out.

Will Wight

I appreciate that!

But the goal of this is to NOT get burned out.

If I can get usable raw material faster, that leaves more time for editing and shaping that material. I’m trying to eliminate the wrong turns and duplicated work that tend to cause me stress.

jagscorpion

I've loved your books, in part, because of their quick pacing and the avoidance of excessive description but I agree that they can explore a tad. Getting the balance right is the trick, of course.

Will Wight

Yeah, even now I don’t think I’m describing too much, but I might be including too many scenes that don’t carry enough weight of the narrative.

We’ll see!

bamfious

At this point, your beta reader apparatus (including Travis), in theory, should be able to help cut the bloat.

This plan makes a lot of conventional sense. i.e. you don't have to context switch as much.

My question is, how often do you come up with a brilliant scene because you were forced to think through how to "Frankenstein" several other scenes into one?Is this often?Is this rare?How can your feedback systems help support this level of creativity post first draft?

Will Wight

Whenever I decide to change the plan, what I’m really doing is saying “The idea I planned doesn’t work. I am going to go this other direction instead.”

But I’m making that judgment unilaterally and alone, with zero input from anyone else.

So what I’m doing this time is turning my inner critic off, writing the book as planned, and handing it to the team ASAP so that they can give me a more objective perspective BEFORE I spend months adjusting course midstream.

One of the core ideas behind this strategy is to stop leaning solely on my impression of my own writing, which I know is flawed, and getting the story in front of other readers first.

FunkyCredo

Consider that with you loosening up your outlining / drafting process you need to tighten up your editing process otherwise quality may decline.

I believe you’ve previously stated that your beta-reader team is a small/private group that you know personally. Now that the beta-reader team faces a bigger responsibility for the final outcome should it be expanded? Is there a need for some harsher voices to properly trim the excess fat?

Will Wight

Short answer: No.

Very long, more helpful answer:

"Consider that...you need to tighten up your editing process"

I am aware of that. The purpose of this strategy is to get to the editing stage sooner to avoid duplicated work and allow more time for editing.

"your beta-reader team is a small/private group that you know personally."

I have said that in the past because it provides a simple and easy answer to the question “Can I be a beta reader?”

The full answer, which I don’t often give, is that I only offer beta reading spots to people when I have a reason to believe that they will offer me valuable insight.

A person online telling me that they want to be a beta reader does not qualify them for consideration, because I don’t know them from Adam. Why SHOULD I give you a spot?

I now know most of my beta readers IRL, but only about half of them did I know before they joined the team. Rather than “You can only be a beta reader if I know you,” a more accurate answer is “You can only be a beta reader if I know you will be an asset to the team.”

Either because they represent the perspective of a group of readers or because they have a unique skill set or perspective themselves.

And then there’s attitude. I get to choose who I work with, so I don’t continue with people who are miserable to work with, and I don’t invite you if I think you will be.

"Now that the beta-reader team faces a bigger responsibility for the final outcome should it be expanded?"

The limiting factor on the beta team is not now, and never has been, size. It’s always time.

It comes down to how much time I give each reader and how much time I allot for edits.

"Is there a need for some harsher voices to properly trim the excess fat?"

I know there’s this tendency to imagine a beta team full of “my mom” and “my best friends who don’t read fantasy” who all tell the author that things are great and are afraid to tell the truth because of their affection for the author.

First of all, I don’t think this is a real thing that happens to anyone.

In my experience beta reading and editing, even the writer’s mom and best friend gently tell the writer what they think, and then the writer just doesn’t listen.

I’ve also tried people on the team who said “It’s great!” and couldn’t articulate WHAT they thought was great or why.

Which is not helpful. I eventually figured out that they weren’t afraid of reprisal or discouragement or whatever, they just genuinely didn’t know how to break down their own experience.

So they’re no longer on the team.

Second...look, I know you guys don’t know me. I’m a pretty open-book sort of person, and I try to be as genuine as I can online, but there’s always going to be a difference between how I come across on social media and who I really am.

But I promise you, my team is willing to tell me the harsh truth.

I know you might be thinking, “Yes, but you can never really know, can you? If you’re deaf to honest feedback, then everyone around you knows it but you.”

I get that. I really do.

There’s nothing I can say to prove it to you, you just have to trust me. I have many, many weaknesses, but an aversion to honest feedback from trustworthy people is not one of them.

aquaticarna

I think there's also a middle ground here, if you've been dialing things all the way to snappy then dialing it back a little bit is a large relative change in the amount of world building or character development without being a large change in total pacing. Personally I've really enjoyed the pace of the cradle books and I think it's part of what makes them so addictive, but I also think there's room for some lulls in the pace, a roller coaster that just goes down hill the whole time would be boring, you need some slow spots to highlight the intense parts. I'm curious to see the results of this experiment, do you think you'll do a blog post on this process change?

Will Wight

That’s the dilemma I’m in, because I just listened through the whole series, and one of my favorite aspects was the quick pace.

However, I also felt most books could have used a handful more scenes. Just a little more content.

My instinct says there’s a happy medium, but I’m not sure exactly where that perfect ratio is or how to hit it.

"you need some slow parts to highlight the intense parts"

Yes and no.

You need parts with less tension to contrast the parts with higher tension, because tension can’t be maintained for too long or it breaks.

But I have those. Not every scene in Cradle is MAXIMUM TENSION GO GO GO ALL THE TIME AAAAHHHHH!

However, you don’t NEED scenes that don’t advance the story. They are, by definition, not necessary. But they can add a layer of texture, tone, or atmosphere.

orionstein

I have to say, I approve. The page limit was a neat idea to start, but at some point with plotline growth, new characters, and worldbuilding additions, it would be impossible to do anything substantive here without needing to split every book into 3 parts. In the end, you would just have a 900 page book split into 3.

I appreciate the shift as you build these pieces out to allow them to expand the book in a more natural manner. As you expand the content you'll need more and more to put them into. This also happens naturally in a lot of fantasy series - GoT got larger and larger and still had to be split up. It doesn't mean you are too wordy or you are bloated, it just means that your world is expanding and that the medium must need to expand with it :)

Will Wight

I...agree with the theory behind this, but it comes with a massive red flag in my mind.

Because I agree: this is exactly why fantasy series gets bigger and bigger each installment as they progress!

But can you name a series that got bigger AND BETTER with each installment, instead of just more bloated?

I can’t.

ASOIAF certainly didn’t. 1 and 2 are both tightly written masterpieces, but 3, 4, and 5 all go downhill one after another in regards to story bloat and wasted words.

IMO, the strongest books in Wheel of Time are 4 and 5, which did get longer from books 1-3 in order to accommodate a bigger cast and more content.

But then the books got longer from there, and the extra (in my opinion) is mostly styrofoam and stuffing. They reached a point of full saturation and kept growing.

Since I started writing fast-paced books in large part as a reaction against this tendency, I am now very, very wary of it.

orionstein

The Malazan Book of the Fallen comes to mind. I feel like I enjoyed the later ones just as much as the earlier ones, it all just came together.

You are correct though, the long series that pull this off appropriately are few. I'm hoping that the Stormlight Archive will be one but since there are only so many books out there only time will tell.

Maybe you can pull it off too!

ArchonFu

It sounds like you're making it possible to produce a "theatrical" cut and an "extended" cut. That worked out really well for Peter Jackson.

You've already got a history of "two book episodes" and this would be even easier since it both books would be the same perspectives.

Of course the rabid fans will crawl over broken glass for the extended cut.

Edit: Does Kindle allow for dynamic book content? Choose your own adventure?

Will Wight

Yes, but actually no.

There are options for it, like you can embed links throughout the book that take you elsewhere in the manuscript, but practically speaking it’s a pretty terrible format for interactive or dynamic content like that.

Which is kind of a bummer, because I’d love to try some less-traditional storytelling techniques.

For instance, a LitRPG where you can check the character’s stat page whenever you want to, and it will be current for your place in the story. So now the stats don’t get in your way, but you can always check them.

Skeletickles

Do you think Lindon is naturally talented at the Sacred Arts, or "just" an average/below-average person?

Will Wight

I think of him as talented in the sense that he has a base level of capability and a passion for improvement, but not talented in the sense that he has an inborn aptitude for madra control.

Even if he had been born somewhere other than Sacred Valley, nobody would have looked at him and gone “Wow, this kid is amazing at the sacred arts! He’s some kind of genius!”

They might have said “Man, he sure works hard,” or “He really loves the sacred arts.”

Equally, nobody outside Sacred Valley would have called him a dud either. Some people really have zero talent for the sacred arts, and he’s not in that group either.

hachkc

[Uncrowned's Ending] definitely felt abrupt but WW likes to keep books a certain length. WW has stated why he feels he needs to keep books a certain length; a business decision. I guess the good news is he's working on it now and should in theory be out by EOY. Given his self imposed constraints, it was either a shorter tournament or more books.

That said, It didn't sour my opinion of the overall series though. Just gave me an excuse to go read his other books. I started with Cradle, moved to EE and I'm just starting TG so I can keep my fix sated for a bit. Should he turn into a GRR Martin type author and related release schedule, you'll get a different answer. I don't need instant gratification but going more than year between books is a chore.

Will Wight

You’re not wrong, but I feel like I have to clarify: this is about NOT becoming an author who releases only one book every two years.

I like telling stories. I don’t particularly like sitting on one story until it’s perfect, and my favorite thing is coming up with new stories.

So the more books I write, the more stories I get to tell.

Also, readers tend to prefer series that come out regularly and authors that release regularly.

Because of that, rapid releases sell more books, which keeps Amazon’s wheels a-turnin’ and sells even more books.

The sweet spot for release schedule in terms of keeping them regular and not working myself to a sweaty death is about two books per year at roughly 100k words. So that’s what I aim for.

Two books at 100k words = happier me, happier readers, more money to save so that I can write books forever.

It would take more time to write longer books, which would mean fewer stories, fewer readers, and fewer total sales. Not just slower sales; a lower total number of sales.

...I need a shorter way of saying all this, but the bottom line is that my general word count limit is for keeping my release rate up.

If I could write 2-3 200k books a year, I’d love to do that, but if I did that now they wouldn’t be up to my usual standard.

Mystical98

Is there gonna be a little romance scenes

Will Wight

Absolutely.

Skeletickles

This makes me so happy. I'm a filthy shipper, so I've been wanting to see some romance for a long time.

Will Wight

Well, this book is already heavier on it than any of the others.

It’s still not the primary focus, of course, but it’s definitely a thing.

extreme-jannie

I just started writing my first book, please let me know which one works.

Will Wight

If you’re writing your first book, then your ONLY goal is to get to the end of the first draft. “Finish the draft” is your new tattoo.

It doesn’t matter how bad you think it is, don’t stop or start over. Finish the draft.

The strategy that works for you is the one that gets you to finish the draft.

First make a book, THEN make a good book.

I’m working to improve my process because I’m on book 17. This would have been a bad thing for me to try on my first book.

Godspeed, soldier! Keep punching those keys!

kenwolfe11

I want a 500 page cradle book. I don’t even care if it’s bloated.

Will Wight

This brings up another great point!

Because I believe you, and I know that a lot of my readers would love me to death if I crammed each book full of content, even if half the scenes are just Lindon and Yerin doing laundry or trying to prevent Little Blue from accidentally falling out a window.

BUT I’m terrified to change the formula now.

I’ve kept the pacing really tight thus far, and even though many fans want be to loosen the belt and let the series breathe, how many readers will feel betrayed if I do that?

I’ve kept the pedal to the metal so far, and if I start letting up, will that ruin what made Cradle work in the first place? Or will we find out that I’ve been speeding way too fast this whole time, and only by slowing down can the story reach its full potential?

Idk, but I’m nervous.

Sohtro

Honestly, I don't know how can you keep this "sharp" the story in every book. It's really exciting, but I'm a little afraid that you will crash like an airplane, which flies vertically up, and then loses momentum and falls back down. Not because it runs out of fuel, but because the air simply gets too thin. Although it sounds good, a whole book can't be one big climax, in my opinion.

I'm halfway through with my 6th reread, and I really miss those small brush strokes, depicting small moments in the life of the characters.

Will Wight

I miss those things too, and I think there’s some leeway where I can include some of those scenes without slowing down too much.

I THINK that.

But am I right? I don’t know. They could be mutually exclusive

FourFreyPies

The characters seem to be the strongest part of the books, and I expect most would agree with me. Now you have a great advantage where scenes that would have been "bloat" for new characters or at the start of the series are the kind of scenes fans would love to read. I don't think you can go wrong at this stage no matter what option you choose

Will Wight

That brings up something else I didn’t mention: it could be that I can afford to slow down at this point because I’m on Book 8. Nobody gets eight books deep into a series unless they’re invested in the characters.

So it could be that any readers I would lose because of “too many character scenes” are already gone.

Will Wight

I’ll explain this tweet a little bit:

“I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

—Mark Twain

I hate slow stories. I have zero patience with fiction. If nothing happens in a scene, I want it gone.

I can’t stand musicals because, in most musicals, the second a song begins the story comes to a DEAD STOP. You could go to the bathroom and miss nothing but the sick beats.

So in my own writing, I am ruthless about culling anything that I would consider wasted time.

Some might say TOO ruthless.

My normal process is to make a plan, then dive in and start writing it, and whenever I hit a scene where I feel like the pacing is starting to drag, I change the plan.

I either combine scenes so that I’m only writing one where the plan called for three, or I cut scenes from the plan, or I’m halfway through writing a scene and I stop and go back and summarize what would have happened in 2-3 lines instead of a whole scene.

Usually the first scenes to go are the scenes that exist primarily for world- or character-building, or scenes that I thought would just be cool.

For instance, I had a bunch of scenes planned in Skysworn just with the Skysworn going around doing missions.

I had this whole idea in Blackflame for Lindon to interact with Lezaar, the Arelius family refiner, and demonstrate how refining works. And also a sub-plot with Yerin where she found out that a Truegold was going around claiming to be the Sword Sage.

There were Soulsmithing scenes planned in virtually every book, which I either skipped or cut.

Anyway, the point is that this process—constantly planning and re-planning and cutting and skipping and figuring out how to combine scenes—takes a long time.

It usually takes me 4-6 months to produce a Cradle book, and I often have 50k words of waste. On paper it should take me less time and there should be less waste.

So, this time, I’ve written my outline the same way I always do, but I’m hammering out the draft quickly without giving myself time to alter the plan as I go.

The THEORY is that the changes I’ve made haven’t really been improvements, they’ve just been lateral moves that have cost me time.

So now, we think we’ll see one of two results:

1.) A more fleshed-out Cradle book with more words that actually took less time to write.

2.) A bloated, boring mess that loses the snappy pacing I love so much and is in dire need of a critical edit.

I’m really hoping for #1, but even if we end up with #2, we’ll have learned that the “constantly fiddle and re-plan” phase is necessary to my process.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I didn’t have enough time to write a short post.

DisWastingMyTime

Should we expect [Wintersteel is] the same range of word count of the previous books?

Will Wight

Similar, yes. This isn’t going to be an 800 page monstrosity.

But I can’t imagine this being shorter than Underlord. There’s a real chance this ends up being the longest entry in the series so far.

Not sure until I finish, though!

Questioner

Wow, Will must be joking when he updates his progress bar! (Paraphrased)

I am not.

EDIT: At other points of the process, it’s hard to put a percentage on my progress.

What percent am I through editing, for instance? I never know, it depends on how much we end up changing in total. We could be almost done or we might need an entirely new round of edits.

But for the first draft, I can accurately measure my percentage by comparing my current word count to my total expected word count. So I ended yesterday about 30% done.

Adamhayce

Will refers to his Traveler's Gate series as halfway between a Japanese light novel and a traditional Western fantasy novel. I can see the western fantasy novel elements in the medieval setting, how the clothing and swords on the covers look and are described. I can't however, tell what he means by it being half lightnovel. Because the books are short maybe?

Will Wight

It’s a stylistic thing.

Light novels are typically fast-paced and visual, with an emphasis on action and a focus on one clear protagonist. They are also written quickly and released frequently, in short volumes.

Traditional fantasy novels are typically denser, slower, longer, with more characters and several sub-plots. They tend to have more complex plots as well as more page space devoted to character- and world-building.

But these are just generalized terms I was leaning on to communicate a point quickly. There are, of course, dense light novels and light traditional fantasy novels.

TheDazeOfOurLives

According to another famous narrative, God once ordered to collect dust from earth from which Adam is supposed to be created from. Only Azrael (Angel of Death) succeeded, whereupon he was destined to become the angel concerning life and death of humanity.

I thought this was humorous as Ozriel is the Monarch of the Arelius family and they are so focused on cleaning things and finding dust.

fudgemetal

Sweet catch my dude, wonder if WW is aware

Will Wight

I am absolutely aware.

True Ruler of None

What is Ziel Iron Body?

What is Ziel Jade Cycling Technique?

Does the Path of the Dawn Oath Goldsign have any benefital properties except goring people?

Will Wight

The first two are definitely notes questions for me. I could give you a general answer, but then I would risk being wrong.

And if I've learned anything, it's that whenever I say something like "Don't quote me on this, but I think it's X," people will quote me saying "It is absolutely X."

The Goldsign does not have any unusual properties except making hair care difficult. Unless, of course, I change my mind later.

True Ruler of None

Atleast it sounds like it is something specific. Which is always nice to know.

I didnt even think about the hair. No Wonder why he is depressed.

Will Wight

I always write down Iron bodies and Jade cycling techniques for every character, even though I don't mention them unless they ever come up in the story for some reason.

onthevergeofposting

Any chance you'll continue writing in the Elder Empire series after finishing OKAK?

Will Wight

The chances are low.

If I think of the right story in that universe, then possibly. I really do like the world.

But I always prefer going somewhere new.

Bradley

Lindon's trip into the Archlord Treasure vault should have had an entire chapter full of amazing weapons and trinkets for Lindon and the readers to get dragon fever over. 

Will Wight

That treasure vault scene, I absolutely did feel like it was missing.The treasure vault is mentioned in Underlord, then twice more in Uncrowned. When the scene skips to Lindon's fight with Naian, the transition is written competently, so it wasn't jarring, but it definitely felt like something was missing.Also, it would have been a perfect place to explain WHY Lindon chose the weapons he did for the individual matches, which would have smoothed out another rough spot.So yeah, while I'm too deep in Book 8 to be able to objectively rank Book 7, I do agree that the vault scene should have been there.