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Nosna

If iterations are destroyed be under population, which creates corruption, then how are uncorrupt worlds created? In other words, iterations are created from pieces of other destroyed iterations. But iterations are destroyed from under population, and under population creates corruption. So how are uncorrupt worlds created?

Jay

I don't think under-population necessarily equals corruption. It seems more like under-population creates a scenario where corruption can more easily take hold, unless actively tended to/guarded by the Ghosts from Abidan.

From the description of Darandiel, "guiding the development of new Iterations and protecting them from malign influence during the vulnerable cycle of destruction and creation."

Will Wight

Jay's got it!

You're not automatically corrupt as soon as you fall within a certain population range. It just makes you vulnerable.

Garbagiel the Raccoon

1. If reaching copper allows you to see the madra around you, what would a copper see in the worlds of House of Blades or Elder Empire?

2. With a mixture of madra and intent, could someone create an invested or awakened object that followed a path?

3. During his travels, did Valin get mocked a lot for his nye cloak?

4. You mentioned that it is very difficult to awaken a gun, but how difficult would it be to create a gun/gunpowder based path?

Will Wight

1.) Nothing. Copper's change allows you to see aura, which (for the most part) only exists in Cradle.

2.) If a Reader and a Soulsmith joined forces, they would be able to create some crazy self-aware objects, yes.

3.) He didn't wear one.

4.) Unnecessary. Why would you need chemical accelerant when you can launch projectiles with your mind?

Diego

1.) Are all your books happening roughly around the same *time*? (If yes any chance of a crossover series?)

2.) Can Immortals have kids? (If both parents are immortals are the kids immortal too?)

3.) I know this is weird but if you ever do a time skip will your main characters ever have kids? (At least some of them? Just curious I'd where that came from)

Will Wight

1.) Can't tell you.

2.) Depends on the nature of their immortality. People achieve immortality in different ways.

3.) Yes, at least some of my main characters will end up with kids.

Rohan

Will, is it possible for a person to learn to manipulate chaos in the same way they manipulate the way?

If the way is connected to order and Ozriel cannot be found by using the way, could that mean he has found a way to manipulate and hide in chaos? This will also support his motivations to find an alternate solution to erasing entire worlds from existence by venturing into chaos to see what other options are available.

Will Wight

Yes, it is possible. It's also possible that this is what Ozriel has done.

Reddan

(1) So the Ghosts manage fragments of worlds that died naturally, while the Reaper (Reapers, plural?) is called in when a world gets corrupted? Before Ozriel became the Reaper, were the Ghosts busy dealing with corrupted fragments too?

(2) Is there any overlap/connection between the Spider’s intelligence gathering and the Hound’s investigation of Fate?

(3) Does Suriel’s Presence draw information from the intelligence network of the Spiders, or is it capable of detecting all of it on its own?

(4) In your original post you said, “Any universe that the Abidan recognize as capable of sustaining human existence and living out a complete life-cycle.” Are there places that aren’t recognized by the Abidan (but are still capable of sustaining humans)? Are there any places that are excluded out of spite or other bad feelings among the Abidan?

Minor theory time:the Wolves are the combat arm of the Abidan (none of the divisions discussed so far seem well suited)the Phoenixes (Phoenices? Phoenies? Does anyone know the correct plural of Phoenix?) are the healers and fixers of problems, in line with what we’ve seen Suriel do so far.

Will Wight

1.) Yes they were! They actually deal with corruption and chaos more than most Abidan ever have to, as their job takes them far from the Way.

2.) Yes there is, but the Spiders kind of work with everyone.

3.) Suriel's Presence is capable of drawing and processing information on its own, but it is also (usually) connected to the Spiders' network. Right now it's disconnected, with results that I hope to show in Blackflame (I might end up having to cut the scene, but I hope not.)

4.) There are pseudo-Iterations (and there should probably be a name for that status) where fragments combined but not fully. In that case, they wouldn't be a full universe, or the fragments would have combined in such a way that the universe will be unable to support life.

--Phoenixes. Also, in my head but nowhere else, Phoenii.

Devin

You said in part 2 that Ozriel was skilled enough to fill any position save for Suriel, does that mean Ozriel is equal to or stronger than the other Judges in their spheres of power? 

Or is the Spider just unfamiliar with using methods not involving The Way to find something he is looking for, while Ozriel, being newer, doesn't rely on The Way as much as other Judges?

Will Wight

That's the question!

The other Judges aren't really sure how Ozriel managed to elude them. If Telariel wasn't good at his job, he wouldn't have ascended to the position in the first place, but Ozriel somehow managed to completely evade all detection by the Way.

Some of the Judges have wondered if Ozriel actually obliterated himself.

Devin

Would hiding somewhere not governed by the Abidan have something to do with why he can't be found THE Spider?

Will Wight

Could be! That's one explanation. It's also why Suriel was hanging out in Cradle, so FAR from Iterations the Abidan don't control: she was stalling, trying to order her thoughts in the last place Ozriel would come back to.

She has a long journey ahead of her.

Sir Wolpertinger

1. If The Ghosts decide where the fragments of iterations go does that mean they pick which territories Amalgam can access?

2. You mentioned before that it once a person leaves their iteration they can't use that magics iteration any longer, but since Valinhall travelers summon the magic into themselves does that mean they still can, and if they can, are other travelers able to?and finally

3. Have you ever considered writing a story wherein the main character is a villain? It's obviously been tried many times, but with your unique writing style I think it could be really awesome.

Will Wight

1.) They could if they wanted to, yes.

2.) They can, and most of Ragnarus' magical weapons would still work too. If another Traveler took their creatures to a different world, like the Avernus birds for instance, their powers would probably stay intact (it depends on the magic system in their destination, but usually yes).

3.) Instead of Elder Empire, I almost wrote a story about a girl on a quest to become a dark lord while a guy is trying to trick people into thinking he's the hero destined to oppose that dark lord.

There were a few cool things about the story and the setting, but now I don't think I'll ever write that particular story. Too much of it went into Elder Empire and Cradle instead.

But yes, I would like to write a villain story. The trick is finding the sweet spot between "totally evil and therefore unsympathetic" and "effectively just a hero in black armor."

Kaileonis

So each iteration has a natural life cycle, and humans are the ones that fuel it. Does that mean that the present, and ancient, Abidan are based from different iterations? Or their iteration are simply seem to be eternal since they have so advanced that their human presence that have access to the Way have made their iteration unnaturally healthy past their natural cycle

Will Wight

Most of the first generation of Abidan were from Cradle, because its magic system encourages ascension. Nowadays, most Abidan are born in the advanced worlds they control (especially Sanctum, their headquarters). However, most "wild" Abidan still come from Cradle.

Tim

Will, what does the Eight-Man-Empire, when they have conquered a country. Do they just take a of food and gold and move on, therefore simply going through the effort simply to show that they CAN conquer a whole country.OR, do they take as much as they can manage to carry?

Will Wight

I hope to show them in action at some point, Tim, so I don't want to give too much away about how they operate.

I will say that they almost always have a specific target. They're going after a person, place, or thing that they want.

Daniel

If the fate of every iteration is to die this consigning the willverse to eventual destruction if the Abidan fail in their defense then why do they put so much emphasis on obeying fate?

Will Wight

Because the fate of each Iteration isn't to die, it's to die and be reborn. They focus on obeying and maintaining Fate to ensure a safe and healthy eventual rebirth.

Daniel

Oh ok so instead of trying to subvert fate so that everywhere can live forever, and by doing so actually accelerate their demise, they decided to supervise and streamline the natural process to ensure existence continues smoothly.

Will

That's the idea, yeah.

They're gardeners. They're trying to make sure the environment is optimal for the plants they chose.

Illar

Is there an Iteration that, like earth, has no magic system at all? And if so can they ascend past their Iteration with technology alone?

Will Wight

Let me put it this way: if there IS a non-magic world out there, they certainly could ascend using solely technology.

Daniel

Will said earlier that the most common ilegal way access was commited by tech based scientists so I think we can assume that there are a bunch of high tech worlds or at least a few with really high populations.

Will Wight

I meant "people experimenting and breaking the universe" was the most common way to breach your world. If you're part of an Iteration in which magic is a natural force, there's no distinction between magic and technology. Warlocks are like computer scientists.

Tim

Will, are the seven Judges and the various members of the Divisions bound by Fate as well.

If that is the case, doesn't that mean that Makiel has power over all of them.

Or, does one, by joining the Abidan, get the keys(figuratively speaking) to free oneself of the Shackles (Fate)?

Will Wight

Fate guides the actions of the Abidan as well!

This was actually something of a revelation to them, as they thought they had moved beyond Fate's reach when they left their Iterations. However, even the Abidan have a Fate.

Makiel doesn't have power over them, exactly. He doesn't control Fate; that would be like trying to manually control gravity.

He and his teams *manage* Fate, making sure people don't screw it up. If humans didn't have free will, there would be no need for the Hounds. But because they do, they can act in ways that might (generations down the road) send Fate spinning out of control.

Hounds look into the past and the future to determine the chain of events that might lead to this sort of thing happening, then they take action to prevent it.

Illar

What would a "screw up" be? Wouldn't anything that someone did be part of that world's natural evolution?

Will Wight

No. That's effectively the premise of this whole concept: that Fate can be defied, eluded, slipped.

Now, waking up and ordering a sandwich for lunch is never going to send your world into a downward spiral because you were destined to eat pasta and you have confounded the powers that be.

Resurrecting a certain dead person, trying to invent time travel, drilling a hole in the universe, looking into the future and working very hard to subvert what you see there, THAT is the sort of thing that knocks Fate off-course.

Diego

Hey Will is there ultimately a finite number of souls in your universe that are just constantly reincarnated or do new souls pop out of somewhere over time ? Or maybe old souls kinda split and become new souls somehow?

Will Wight

Oh, this is kind of cool!The ancient Abidan who discovered the connection between human souls* and the Way did a lot of experiments to figure out what qualified someone as human. 

A lot of the experiments were horrible. They would do things like burn away sections of the brain to see how small a brain could be before it no longer had a connection to the Way.

They learned a lot this way, but the bottom line is that each soul is new. An infant starts developing a connection to the Way that gets stronger as it grows and becomes more aware, and when you die, the soul vanishes. The connection is severed.

So obviously the Abidan did experiments with resurrection; if you do what Suriel did, reverting them to their previous condition, the connection is reestablished. If you go with a more medical style of resurrection, for instance stopping and re-starting a heart, it also works...up to a point. Your body can only remain dead a certain amount of time before repairs are useless and the soul has departed.

(These parts were fun for me to write because I got to play with the science of a different universe. What tests would we try if we could measure the effect and presence of a soul?)

So...is the soul consciousness itself? Is it a mystical force that ceases to exist when you die? Does it go somewhere else?

There are theories, but even the Abidan don't know.

*(Cradle and the Abidan have two different definitions of what a soul is. The Abidan say it's the undefined property or force that connects a human's will to the Way, while the Cradle "soul" is what they would call a madra network.)

Rhys

Hey will, those experiments sound disturbingly similar yo how we learned about the physiology and anatomy of the brain in today's world. As a medical student you're always a little uncomfortable with some of the knowledge you have because of the way it was found. Is there a similar feeling among some of the Abidan? Like the information is useful, but they're a little guilty about how it was gained.

Will Wight

You've actually touched on something I'm a little nervous about, Rhys.Because the Abidan are all people who shoulder cosmic levels of responsibility, and who often ascended from positions of great power and influence. They'll be hard people who understand how life works, and accept dark truths without blinking. However, they'll also be people with strong moral convictions and opinions.So here's why I'm nervous: I hope I'm up to the task of conveying all that. Your question SHOULD have a wide variety of different answers, depending on the individual Abidan.Some of them would torture mortals for answers even now, because these are critical questions that affect the structure of existence, so they're far more important than individual lives. Others would never use the information at all, because of how it was obtained, and feel very strongly that it should be redacted.Everything is a complex situation among the Abidan, because they're all strong-willed, accomplished, intelligent individuals. With very different ideas on what is moral, immoral, or justified.I'll need to push myself to convey that effectively.

Reddan

Reading back through Soulsmith, Gadrael as Titan explains the buckler-type weapon and why he put the barriers around the Limit-Harrow collision himself.

I thought Gadrael might be the Hound after reading Soulsmith the first time, because Suriel thought of him as "a loyal dog" with Makiel in charge.

Will Wight

I know, I actually tried to change the name of the Hounds because they're not the loyal followers at all, but uh...well, I couldn't think of any totemic animal that suited their role as detectives.

Owls would be pretty weird, and picking Bats would effectively mean that I've created a universe with Batman in charge.

Come to think of it, that would be awesome.

Daniel

Last question for now. Would a powerful enough remnant be able to operate like a human since it would retain most of its memories? Or asked another way, will we ever just see a remnant wandering around just minding its own business and interacting with other humans like it was still alive?(albite less powerful)

Will Wight

Yes, to both.

Remnants can cultivate, and as they do, they become more intelligent...and also more human.

That's why they crave human madra just as much as they do vital aura.

Sufficiently advanced Remnants are effectively weird-looking people. However, they are DIFFERENT people than the ones who died and left them behind.

We'll get into it.

Daniel

Is there room in the willverse for an iteration that is populated entirely by nonhuman intelligence? And what about AI? Do they add stability to they way or do they not count cause they are "artificial"?

Will Wight

This is one of the sacrifices I had to make in designing the Willverse, which I still think is a hilarious name: truly artificial intelligence doesn't exist.

In theory, as we understand intelligence in our world right now, we should soon reach a point where artificial intelligence starts increasing exponentially until it changes the world entirely.

Well, in the Willverse, developing civilizations eventually discover a hard limit to artificial intelligence. The same X factor that ties the Way to human consciousness also means that non-human entities can never be truly sentient.

A pure computer in the Willverse is never going to beat a really good Turing Test.

However, you CAN manipulate human consciousness to get around the intelligence barrier.

A Presence is an AI built out of what you might call human souls.

***

I had to make this decision because, if hyper-advanced AI is possible in this multiverse, then *that's* what would be running the Abidan. Not the Judges. Human decisions would be overrated, since an AI could come to the optimized conclusions a billion times faster and without emotional bias.

It also kind of fits the premise of a multiverse where human will is intrinsic to existence. If it's that fundamental and important, then it can't be faked.

Does mean that existential questions about what it means to be human are easier to answer, though.

(You also asked about nonhuman intelligence; bottom line is, non-humans gain intelligence by stealing or copying or otherwise transferring it from humans. So as they become more intelligent, they also become more human.)

Daniel

Huh. Well I'm glad that you wove a reason as to why AI doesn't work in your universe. Makes you greater than most in that regard.

Will Wight

Years ago, I got to a point in this system's development and I realized I was pretending they didn't have AI. Which they would obviously have, as advanced as they are.

So I got down into it and realized that having AI violates the one core tenet of how this multiverse works: humans are important.

"Humans are important" is a key rule in the Willverse, because I wanted room for as many characters as possible. I wanted it to be people from the ground up, so that when you get up to the very apex of the universe (the Judges), you're not dealing with a bland personification of the will of the universe, or a hyper-advanced AI, or an unknowable alien god. You're dealing with a person, who might be incredibly advanced and powerful but is still human deep down.

So instead of humans being one sentient species on one insignificant planet in one insignificant system in one insignificant galaxy in a vast, uncaring universe, we are (in my world) a crucial part of the machinery of reality.

Many stories PRETEND humans are important, but how many of them hard-code it into the way the universe functions? HUH? HUH!?...anyway, since AI makes humans less special and unique, I built a set of rules that precluded AI. Sad to see them go, but I think it makes room for some interesting stories.

Will Wight

For clarification:--When I say AI, I mean advanced sentient AI. Obviously they do have some level of artificial intelligence.

--Here's the REASON I wanted all those humans: characters are what make a story interesting. An AI isn't relatable, and gods don't have flaws.

I wanted to be able to give every significant force in this multiverse a personality, a backstory, and a relatable motivation.

Not to mention cool powers.

...plus, it's kind of neat to have a universe where everyone, even on a cosmic scale, earned their way there.

Daniel

So it seems to me that the other multiversal powers are actually doing more to stabalise iterations just by allowing people to cross from one too the other and share tech because that would push population higher and allow them to stabalise iterations by bringing in more people.

Will Wight

Not quite! I hope to get into the mechanics of this in a Suriel storyline at some point, but basically unsupervised inter-world interaction has consequences that spill over into other worlds. THOSE Iterations might be better off, but they're shifting consequences onto other worlds.

Great for you, bad for the neighbors.

However, that's not to say that the Abidan have it all figured out. There is a reason they do what they do, but they can still make mistakes. One of the reasons Ozriel left is that he couldn't stand their policies; there's a lot of gray area between "not interfering with a world at all" and "controlling every aspect of its development."

If you'll recall, when Suriel shows up to Cradle, she considers saving some random people from harm, despite the non-interference rules. She could potentially have done that by descending and then using no more powers than an ordinary resident of the world.

By acting within the rules of the world, she's not interfering with Fate too much and not violating the Pact.

She could NOT have waved her hand and cured cancer over the whole planet.

Ozriel's argument is that they should be saving as many people as they can, as their power allows, even to the point of weakening the restrictions of the Eledari Pact. There are many worlds that he wouldn't have had to reap if the Pact would have allowed him to end a war, or destroy a particular demon, or eradicate a plague.

...boy, I've said too much. Quiet, Will.

Daniel

Hmmmmm. That's quite intriguing will. Seems like just an exchange of tech could easily exponentially increase the populations of various iterations and stabilize them without to many people going back and forth. Unless that destabilizing effect is based of something more obtuse than that.

Will Wight

A limited version of that is something that Ozriel might argue for. If there's a plague that's about to wipe out an entire planet and someone in another dimension has figured out a cure, why shouldn't we give them the cure? No magic powers necessary--we're giving them something they COULD have figured out on their own, but didn't. The Iteration gets to live at least a few thousand more years instead of getting Reaped.

Diego

Hey Will I don't quiet understand a part of this deviating from fate business. (I hope u don't take it the wrong way) I mean u mentioned that new iterations are formed from fragments drifting in the eternal nothingness or whatever.

Okay now these iterations are devoid of human life at first. (So their original fate is to actually devolve into chaos) 

Then the Abidan sort of place humans in them sort of like pilgrims to that iteration, isn't that in and of itself a deviation of fate? Not only for the world, but for those people whom were taken there as well? (I imagine they have to terraform the planet first to be suitable as well)

The only way i see it being part of Fate is if the "Way" kinna speaks to the Abidan of whom to take and from where. Again i hope u don't take it the wrong way or if u have another explanation ready. :D

Will Wight

vWell, they don't usually have to do much terraforming. The fragments tend to combine into a single, inhabitable, central planet, and then the Iteration spreads out from there into a full universe. Like a seed growing.

When a world is born in this manner, it's not yet tethered to the Way. And therefore not yet bound by Fate.

Only when the people show up does the world start to develop a connection to Fate at all.

Nltin

Did Ozriel forge his own Scythe? It was mentioned in first book that he managed to touch the way without even ascending. Atleast his fury did. Was he at same cultivation level as Sha Miara?

Was Sha Miara born with enough madra to qualify as true gold or something considering she is only 12?

Will Wight

Sha Miara inherited power that the most talented Truegolds would have to train their whole lives and exhaust fortunes to achieve. That's the base level of power she'd have if she were never taught anything about the sacred arts and never trained a day in her life.

The story about Ozriel's Scythe is going to have to wait until much later, I think, but he was a legendary Soulsmith of his time.

He did reach the same cultivation level as Sha Miara and the rest during his time on Cradle, yes, but he would have been considered a freak even among people of that tier.

Tim

Will, how old is Sha Miara.

It would be a bit too extreme for her to be 12, and yet be amongst the strongest on Cradle. 

Suriel, one of the strongest person in existence, said that she didnt even reach that level in 30 years, yet a girl is supposed to have managed to achieve it. Wouldn'T she have the potential, then, to outclass the members of the Abidan, given enough time?

Will

I don't remember how young she is without looking it up in my notes, but no older than 15 or so.

What's wrong with that?

Sure, she's decades ahead of Suriel. But in the grand scheme of things, there were a lot of people among all worlds who were decades ahead of Suriel at some point.

A lot of people have the potential to become Judges, but very, very few ever make it that far. There's a long way from the Ninecloud Court to the Court of Seven.

Adarsh

So I know that what Li Markuth did was a violation of Fate, but would it also be a violation of fate if in some super high-tech world some scientists accidentally create a breach between iterations and wind up on Cradle or Amalgam? OR does it only count if it was your own personal power?

Will Wight

No, that would absolutely count. In fact, something like that is usually what happens.

 

Tacroy

Huh but then at what point does something become a violation of Fate?

Will Wight

Whenever it becomes a violation of Fate.

Seriously, you have to look and see where Fate is headed in order to know whether something is a violation or not.

There are some clear-cut infractions, like when ANYTHING from one world crosses over into another. That's two worlds that were never supposed to interact, and they're interacting.

But for the most part, it's very situational.

However, within a single world, you can't ACCIDENTALLY violate Fate. You have to be intentionally working against the forces of the rules, like trying to make yourself immortal, or tampering with time, etc.

Riley

Wait... if anything moving from one iteration to another is a violation, then how does one ascend from their world? Is that an exception to the rule since Sanctum has knowledge of the Way, the Abidan, and other iterations?

Will Wight

If everything goes to plan, we'll eventually get to see the ascension process firsthand! All those questions will be answered in time.

Diego

Your basically saying Ozriel joined because he thought it was a way (no pun intended) to help more people and he pretty much did his job much better than anyone else. 

Now that he left they are out to either recruit or kill him because he didn't agree with all they were doing?

Will Wight

Pretty much. From Ozriel's perspective, he joined because he felt a personal responsibility to use his massive power for the benefit of as many people as possible, and the Abidan rules are preventing him from saving people. But they won't let him look for another, better way, even though he's shouldering the heaviest burden out of any of them.

From Makiel's perspective, Ozriel is so arrogant that he believes he knows better than everyone else, so he's abandoned his post and left millions if not billions of people to die.

Suriel's kind of caught in the middle. On the one hand, she agrees with Ozriel that there must be a better way to do things. On the other hand, he actually HAS risked the lives of everyone living in an Abidan-protected world.

***I need to cover this in another post, but just to be clear, here's the reason why it's a big deal that Ozriel left, even immediately.

Without Ozriel, the Abidan can handle a few hundred worlds. It takes hundreds of Abidan per Iteration, because they're constantly surrounded by corruption and chaotic fragments.

WITH Ozriel, they've expanded to several thousand worlds. Now it only takes a handful of Abidan per sector, because there are very few chaotic fragments and the corruption is easily handled.

With corrupted worlds destroyed completely, there are many fewer unhealthy fragments, so everyone's jobs become easier and they can spread themselves thinner.

But now that they've expanded so far, Ozriel is the cornerstone of their whole operation. With him missing, they've now got WAY more worlds than they can handle.

...I need to come up with an analogy for this. Maybe weeds in a garden?